Learning To Talk About Conflict

Oregon Braver Angels Newsletter
by Karolina Newcombe

Braver Angels event moderator Heidi Venture isn’t afraid of a little confrontation.  “With Braver Angels, I’m a moderator, and I really don’t want to do anything else.  My strength is in managing big groups of people having an ugly conflict, and I love doing it.” 

“I don’t even mind when they have bad behavior, as long as they’re willing to look at their behavior as they go.  If I say that we have to stop because there’s some name calling, if they’re willing to stop...that’s beautiful to me.” 

But she wasn’t always one to step into the middle of an argument.  “I used to be a conflict avoider, and I started having problems because of that.  I had to learn how to talk about conflicts, not avoid them.  Some of the best friendships I’ve made were when I had a conflict with somebody that we had to work through. When you get to the other side of that, you have these warm feelings for each other.”

“It’s like make-up sex...if you can print that.”

Heidi’s journey in depolarization work started in 2016.  “I was already worried about polarization, and then Trump got elected, and I saw how people reacted on both sides.  Some of my liberal friends were so freaked out.  They were just beside themselves, and consumed by their freak out.  I wanted people to talk to each other again.  I’m liberal, and I have friends who aren’t liberal.  I lived in Eastern Washington in a very Republican town for 22 years.  I see them as people who have a very valuable outlook that’s different from mine.  I see most Republicans as being very similar to me.  But what I saw my liberal friends doing was painting all conservatives with the same characteristics as the most extreme ones.  They were living in a non-real world.”  

She joined Braver Angels around that time, but also led her own value-based depolarization trainings at Unitarian churches and for community groups.  She took a pause from depolarization work to focus on her facilitation business...but then, things started heating up again as the 2020 election approached. 

“I was thinking “No matter how it goes, this is going to be a very polarizing election for our country.”  And I’m very patriotic.  I believe that our government and our system--I think it’s us, it’s all of us.  I don’t think it’s separate from the people.”

Heidi then went through the Braver Angels event moderator training.  I ask her how she keeps passionate dialogue at events from turning into an all-out fight. 

“A lot of times it’s just saying—‘Let’s take a pause and look at what’s happening right now.  Let’s step away from the issue.’  People want that.  They want someone to help them deal with having these strong feelings and strong words.  When people use dehumanizing language, they feel like bad people.”  She does acknowledge that this is not always the case on social media. “Online, people are in their in-group when they do this most of the time, and they’re encouraged to do it.  Dehumanization is the first step toward genocide.  Nobody wants that.  But people do want to be heard.”   

“One of the biggest mistakes liberals have made is not listening to conservatives.  Conservatives have some great ideas that they’ve worked on for a long time, and liberals could hear them with an open mind and the possibility of taking action.  Listen to the whole idea.  We don’t do that anymore, we’re in our own little bubbles.  Sometimes, we’ll hear the liberal version of a conservative idea, not the real thing.”

Heidi lives in Hood River, which she calls “the most liberal rural town in Oregon.”  She admits that living in a blue town makes her wish for a little more political balance.  “I think it’s kind of renewed my commitment to finding conservatives to talk with.  I’m a fundraising/strategic planning consultant, and I have quite a few clients who are conservatives.  This has motivated me to think about how I can get more conversation going with them, where I can understand them and listen to them.  This is what we need to do -- how can I listen to the other side?  We have to get people listening.  The rest of it can come later, but the listening comes first.” 

“I think liberals pride themselves on their empathy and compassion, and they need to apply that compassion to their Republican friends and family and neighbors.  Or else they need to stop thinking they’re so compassionate.  Stop bragging about it, unless you’re going to apply it to everybody.  I do have some Democrat friends who are not happy with me, because I keep saying we need to build some bridges and listen.  And they’re in a high state of emotional arousal.  I really thought that with Trump out of office, they’re going to settle down.  But some of them are not settling down, they’re just as angry.”  

She quotes psychologist Jonathan Haidt:  “Morality binds and blinds.”

“It’s very hard to see past your own moral foundation.  If you think the most important thing in the world is to listen to people who are unheard, then you’re not going to accept that someone else has a completely different moral foundation that does not value hearing the unheard.”  

She refers back to the work of Jonathan Haidt again:  “As liberals, we’re kind of stuck on two values:  compassion and fairness.  Conservatives also look at authority and loyalty and liberty and sanctity as important values, and we really devalue those.  And there are times when you need authority, and there are times when you need loyalty.” 

Is she worried about what seems to be a deepening division in this country?  “I’m terrified for the future all the time.  I’m 64, but I have kids and a grandboy.  I’m terrified of what will happen if we can’t start talking to each other again, and being human again.  And we don’t have to go through that.  We’ve got the resources, we’ve got the brains, we really don’t have to fight this out as animals.  We can do that as human beings.  I want us to be human beings again and see each other as human beings.”  She does not pretend to be completely above the divisiveness herself.  “And it happens to me too, and I have my moments.  I’ve got a Republican friend who calls me names, I’ve got a family member who’s in QAnon.  It’s hard to be the one who has to be rational always.  But I don’t like the low road.  I don’t like how it feels to call anybody a name.”

One of her favorite quotes is from author Amaryllis Fox:  “I really do think that finding common ground is the greatest act of patriotism any of us can engage in right now.” 

Heidi’s advice for practicing depolarization is straightforward:  “Take a couple more Braver Angels workshops--that’d be my first tip.  Listen and don’t react.  Just because you’re listening, doesn’t mean you’re agreeing.  And sometimes you really do have to walk away, if someone is being abusive and is not willing to listen to you.  Then I think you should have the option to walk away from that interaction.” 

“I hope this work grows and makes a difference,” she says.